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Author Topic: Dips vs Bench for strength  (Read 2090 times)
amatella
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« on: January 08, 2012, 12:02:44 PM »

Hey all... 
I was contemplating switching out bench 5x5 with heavy weighted dips 5x5 in my routine.  The reason being is that with bench, I struggle with lockout, i.e. I need triceps strength... Im currently on sl 5x5 routine and the reason why bench is stalling is due to triceps (same exact reason with OHP as well).  I was thinking about switching out bench with 5x5 HEAVY weighted dips progressing workout to workout for about 6 weeks, then Bench heavy again.  Sound like a plan?

Oh and I will also do 3x8 CGBP at the end of workout A

so workout A will look like
Squat 5x5
Weighted Dips 5x5
Pendlay Row 5x5
CGBP 3 x 8

I was also thinking about adding some sumo good mornings on workout B for some posterior chain load.. 3 x 10-12... this was actually recommended to me by a PT who is specialized in strength training.
thoughts?
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Row: 175 x 5 (strict)
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2012, 12:18:04 PM »

Personally, I've found weighed Dips easier to progress on than Bench, as you can overload by adding increments of 2.5lbs on the weight belt.

I'd be careful switching these out though, as Dips are far more tricep intensive than Bench, and could easily lead to overtraining, especially if you throw some CGBPs in there too.

Give it a shot, see what happens, but I'm pretty sure if you have CGPB in there it'll be too demanding on your triceps and you'll end up overtraining.
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 12:22:43 PM »

Chest dips?
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Hooloovoo
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2012, 01:01:09 PM »

Sounds like it could work. But don't do dips AND close-grip bench. Pick one and stick to it.
If you do choose to do this, remember to work up gradually to your current bench working weight since you won't have done it for 6 weeks.
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 01:28:04 PM »

yeah that's what I intend to do.

if I do CGBP itll be speed work more than anything with a weight I can do 8 reps comfortable with... ill see how things work if its too much ill obviously drop it
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Goals for November 2011:
Squat: 265 1 rm *success 2/6/11* New goal 285 1 rm

Deadlift: 405 1 rm, Current 300 x 5

Bench: 195 1 rm *2//9/11 New Current 1 rm = 200 New Goal = 225

Overhead Press: 135 1 rm

Row: 175 x 5 (strict)
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    « Reply #5 on: January 11, 2012, 12:12:33 AM »

    Wait, why aren't you doing dips already?  You should be doing dips as an assistance to your bench.  Weighted dips will help your lockout, but you do them after the actual benching. 
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    joe101
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    « Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 12:05:40 PM »

    I don't think you NEED to do dips as a bench assist Little Sprite, especially if you're a novice. The press is all you really need.

    Personally, I find benching a better overall pushing exercise for strength than dips. The ROM is greater and is also always the same. You can cheat on dips easier by using momentum and the ROM will often vary from rep to rep.
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    futry65
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    « Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 03:46:40 PM »

    If I were you i'd use the dips as a warm up (bodyweight), then instead of normal bench just do CGBP for a few weeks/months.

    When you are ready, proceed as normal again  Wink
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    amatella
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    « Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 06:04:25 PM »

    dips are kicking my ass harder than bench press.
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    +++True champions are made when NO ONES watching+++

    Goals for November 2011:
    Squat: 265 1 rm *success 2/6/11* New goal 285 1 rm

    Deadlift: 405 1 rm, Current 300 x 5

    Bench: 195 1 rm *2//9/11 New Current 1 rm = 200 New Goal = 225

    Overhead Press: 135 1 rm

    Row: 175 x 5 (strict)
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    « Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 06:26:30 AM »

    I don't think you NEED to do dips as a bench assist Little Sprite, especially if you're a novice. The press is all you really need.

    Personally, I find benching a better overall pushing exercise for strength than dips. The ROM is greater and is also always the same. You can cheat on dips easier by using momentum and the ROM will often vary from rep to rep.
    I think if you do chest dips correctly (as in butt up and chest forward) the ROM can be better than bench press. Especially if it's done on rings, since rings allow more natural rotation of the shoulder. But Rings dips might not be optimal for strength, all the stabilization going on limit the weight you can use by a lot.
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    « Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 08:37:36 AM »

    I don't think you NEED to do dips as a bench assist Little Sprite, especially if you're a novice. The press is all you really need.

    I agree with this, because I don't think you should be adding dips to SL, especially not if you're intending to do CGBP as well. Think about it, then you'd be doing bench press, dips, CGBP and press. That means heavy pushing work three times a week every week, which sounds a bit over the top since you only have one heavy pulling motion in SL.

    If anything, replace the bench press with chest dips, but even then, I wouldn't add CGBP since you have the press like joe101 says. At least don't add it without adding a vertical pull (I'd prefer a supine grip since you already have a pronated grip pulling exercise) to the plan as well to keep everything balanced.
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    King Neptune
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    « Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 08:54:31 AM »

    dips are kicking my ass harder than bench press.

    Yeah, np, substitute them for bench press. Make sure your depth is consistent. Shoulders slightly below your elbows is best if your shoulders can take it. You could stay in the 8 - 12 zone and get strong, too, you don't necessarily have to go 5 x 5. You can resume 5 x 5 when you go back to bench pressing.
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    Alsavier
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    « Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 09:52:55 AM »

    He has lock out trouble and peoples solution is to ignore it.. as usual.
    This is why I hate SL and so on, just no room for improvisation what soever. Once some sticking points rear their ugly head, don't just accept them or "do 3x3" these will only work for so long, where as assistance work can really bust a plateu (continually) and keep the body from accomodation.

    If you have weak triceps I can recommend some tricep assistance work. Continue doing your bench, it's a great exercise. Just add in dips and maybe one functional isolation if you feel you need it. However after Bench + Dips I would imagine your tri's to feel pretty stoked!

    If you do feel you need an isolation, just experiment and see which ones you like and can feel working. I personally like JM press and single arm overhead extensions. However someone else might like rope pushdowns and overhead lock outs with very heavy weights. But I mix it up on those fairly frequently and add weight reguarly.

    However it depends how long you've stalled, if it's just a few weeks, you might not need any assistance and it's just a sticking point you have to persevere through. However if we're talking 2-3 months, it's time for change.

    King's suggestion of the higher rep range is a great one. The higher rep range can take the stress off joints (the 5x5 will be stressful although not in a bad way).







    « Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 09:58:52 AM by Alsavier » Logged

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    « Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 10:01:47 AM »

    What I, personally, would try if Alsavier's suggestion of simply adding dips/triceps isolation doesn't work -

    Substitute dips for bench press each alternating workout.  Don't replace bench press altogether, as then the movement pattern would become slightly unfamiliar when you went back to it, and who wants to spend another 4 weeks working back up to their previous numbers because they haven't benched in a while?

    Load up them dips heavy as you can handle for 4x6 or 5x5 and use them as a tool, not a replacement.
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    « Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 10:17:10 AM »

    What I, personally, would try if Alsavier's suggestion of simply adding dips/triceps isolation doesn't work -

    Substitute dips for bench press each alternating workout.  Don't replace bench press altogether, as then the movement pattern would become slightly unfamiliar when you went back to it, and who wants to spend another 4 weeks working back up to their previous numbers because they haven't benched in a while?

    Load up them dips heavy as you can handle for 4x6 or 5x5 and use them as a tool, not a replacement.

    Well, if you're worried you might have to re-groove your movement pattern, you can just keep practicing light bench presses every time you go to the gym :-)
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