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King Neptune
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2011, 05:41:24 PM » |
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I'll go to the gym and just practice hang power cleans and / or hang power snatches most of the time. Though I might do them from the floor sometimes. I rarely do the full versions, and rarely do jerks. If I'm doing them on a FBW day, I'll follow cleans with press or push press. So mostly hang power versions. I mix it up a bit with clean grip snatch, hip snatch, clean series, pulling from pins instead of hang...10 sets of 3, maybe a max attempt, that's it.
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2011, 05:54:17 PM » |
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Cool. I"m finding learning to clean difficult haha. I got a good rep with 120lbs yesterday. Question--how do you find the ideal place where the bar leaves your thighs? IE in the jumping position of a hang clean, how do you know where the best position for the bar to leave your thighs is? Also, it's been hitting me in the nuts every once in a while. perhaps that means it's leaving me too high?
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King Neptune
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« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2011, 05:59:43 PM » |
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Very high on the thighs for a clean, in the hip crease for a snatch. The bar should brush your hips, or upper thighs. Hitting the nuts will go away as it's painful enough. It's like hitting your nose with a press, after a few such events, it stops happening, it's a fast learning curve  Anyway, it means you are probably using a good bar trajectory. |
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2011, 06:48:40 PM » |
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Ah ok. And what do you think Pyrros Dimas' very trap-heavy PC as opposed to a more moderate trap usage and more hip?
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King Neptune
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« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2011, 07:25:52 PM » |
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I don't know, all I know is that it he is scarily impressive!
If you watch the slow motion, you can see that he has a violent hip extension too, as far as I can tell. He starts shrugging earlier than others. I guess Rip is right on this, it must be that it allows him to use an even longer lever with the shoulders in front of the bar longer (long torso, short legs), also, lessening of the horizontal displacement component. But it's just too advanced for me. I do oly lifts to practice power, I don't mind that my technique isn't optimal  |
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2011, 09:31:41 AM » |
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Hm, I don't think I see the lever thing you were talking about. I've seen the video, and he does shrug early (I guess?) but I don't see how that effects levers.
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King Neptune
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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2011, 09:55:00 AM » |
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Hm, I don't think I see the lever thing you were talking about. I've seen the video, and he does shrug early (I guess?) but I don't see how that effects levers.
Makes his back artificially longer. It keeps the shoulders in front of the bar longer, and this is key for producing more power (this is the only cue I try to remember btw). The bar must have non-decreasing acceleration. The longer lever allows Dimas to use the posterior chain, the most powerful muscles, to impart, gradually, as much acceleration as possible during the second pull. I hope this makes sense. |
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2011, 12:26:31 PM » |
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Yes it does, I gotcha now. Fairly advanced technique you'd say?
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King Neptune
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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2011, 12:37:48 PM » |
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Yes it does, I gotcha now. Fairly advanced technique you'd say?
I don't know...I'm not rebuilding my whole clean pattern, because I'm not competing. On the other hand, if you're learning them, you might as well try to emulate his technique. It might not be that much harder to learn to do them his way, I don't know...though for starters you should be just concentrating on having the elbows in front of the bar for the second pull, not bending the arms during the shrug, stomping, catching in the rack position, not hitting your nuts... Anyway, having these videos in slow motion is priceless! |
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2011, 01:34:33 PM » |
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Yes it does, I gotcha now. Fairly advanced technique you'd say?
I don't know...I'm not rebuilding my whole clean pattern, because I'm not competing. On the other hand, if you're learning them, you might as well try to emulate his technique. It might not be that much harder to learn to do them his way, I don't know...though for starters you should be just concentrating on having the elbows in front of the bar for the second pull, not bending the arms during the shrug, stomping, catching in the rack position, not hitting your nuts... Anyway, having these videos in slow motion is priceless! Definitely have NOT been doing this. The bar would leave the body pretty low on the thighs wouldn't it? I assume this would make it travel forward/make me jump forward. |
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King Neptune
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2011, 01:43:24 PM » |
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No, on the contrary, it has to be as close as possible to you, with your back angle realtively flat, so that your shoulders are in front of the bar at this point. You can generate more power this way. If you're starting from the floor, the shoulders can be over or slightly in front of the bar. But you can also start with your shoulders behind. Check this out: http://bretcontreras.com/2011/07/banned-in-the-usa-a-renegade-approach-to-learning-the-olympic-lifts/As you will see if you read it, the shoulders will still have to get in front of the bar when you get to the second pull. Even though the article describes a rather unconventional technique, many points it's making are for everyone, it's worth reading. |
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King Neptune
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2011, 01:59:10 PM » |
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P.S. By relatively flat, I don't mean horizontal, of course. And if you check the video above, you can see that he's got his shoulders in front of the bar for the second pull. Checking my own link, though, I found that the coach recommends shoulders over the bar, though However, there are many approaches, depending on coaches, but I'm siding with those who say that you can generate more power with shoulders slightly in front, at the start of the second pull, and the back angle relatively flat. |
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« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 02:09:41 PM by King Neptune »
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2011, 02:40:57 PM » |
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Lol, this is confusing. In the hang position, the shoulders should be BEHIND or OVER the bar, and at the bottom, the shoulders should be OVER or IN FRONT as if you're doing a deadlift. This is what I'm distilling from this. Also, that the bar is high on the thighs. At this point, though, is your back straight with bent knees and shoulders back, or is your back bent with bent knees and shoulders back/over the bar?
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King Neptune
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« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2011, 03:21:46 PM » |
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OK, yes, this is confusing. Start here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/12_steps_to_the_perfect_cleanAs you can see, shoulders should be slightly in front of the bar in the hang position, though some will use a slightly different technique, I guess. The knees are still bent a little, the back is arched. The angle of the back relative to the floor almost doesn't change from the bottom until you pass the knees. You vigorously extend the hips. By the time the bar reaches and brushes the top of your thighs, your knees are slightly bent again, but don't focus on that. The back is straight at this point. Anyway, this might still be confusing, so just focus on getting the feel for the hang position, where your shoulders should be slightly in front, extend the hips and knees, keep on your heels, keep the chest pround and the lats tight, get the bar to brush the top of your thighs. Of course you have to shrug too, but it's impossible to think about all this at such a fast speed. So just focus on not bending the arms early, and let your elbows come out to the sides, then rotate them around the bar. Hth |
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Little Sprite
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« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2011, 05:18:53 PM » |
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Well, sadly I don't have a broomstick or something to practice on while in my dorm, but I will definitely try this when I get to the gym. *sigh* lol. I'll get it eventually, and it'll be awesome haha. Maybe I'll post a video for form checks.
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