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Sbaker34
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« on: January 21, 2012, 09:20:56 AM »

Currently it gets dark around 5 here, as I get home at 4 and my weights are outside that a issue, to set up for squats I have to move the bench, adjust everything, load the bar, the total of which takes 5-10 minutes, then I squat, and do the whole thing again. In this way legs can add about 40 minutes onto my workout time. Doing it all would probably take a hour and a half. Plus the additional fatigue legs and deadlifts adds when I'm doing upper body.

Anyways, im thinking of doing a upper lower split, probably monday upper, tuesday lower, rest wenesday, thursday upper, friday lower.

But something I am not clear on, Would I just take my full body workout I am doing now, and make one A, and one B? Or would I for example, do side raises twice a week instead of once? Because I am missing a day. How would would I consolidate 3 days into 2?
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 10:11:41 AM »

Upper 1 = horizontal moves:
BB rows, (Incline) Bench press, RD rows, same moves with DB
+(optional) Triceps or Biceps isolation

Upper 2 = vertical moves:
Chin Ups, OH Press, Upright Row, Dips...
+(optional) arm isolation

Lower 1 = knee:
squats, front squats, calf raises, lower back isolation or GHR, abs

Lower 2: hips:
deadlifts, leg curls, unlinear work, calf work (not same as Lower day 1), abs
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vertigo66
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 10:30:00 AM »

so many ways you can do it. easy option is do 3 upper and 3 lower keeping the sets low. more days don't mean more work. or 3 upper and 2 lower and add a few more sets on the lower body days. or even like you say 2 upper 2 lower. this will most likely be a longer workout depending on what you put in it. you can do A-B workouts or just a single workout, depends if you think its balanced enough.

why not throw out the side raise and do OHP and upright rows.
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Sbaker34
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 01:51:30 PM »

so many ways you can do it. easy option is do 3 upper and 3 lower keeping the sets low. more days don't mean more work. or 3 upper and 2 lower and add a few more sets on the lower body days. or even like you say 2 upper 2 lower. this will most likely be a longer workout depending on what you put in it. you can do A-B workouts or just a single workout, depends if you think its balanced enough.

why not throw out the side raise and do OHP and upright rows.

Personally for me, overhead press sucks ass, not to mention I can't move any weight if I do any tricep exercises before hand, or after.
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    « Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 01:54:13 PM »

    I'd personally do your lower before upperbody workouts. So:
    LB1, UB1, Rest, LB2, UB2, Rest, Rest
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    vertigo66
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    « Reply #5 on: January 21, 2012, 02:08:29 PM »

    so many ways you can do it. easy option is do 3 upper and 3 lower keeping the sets low. more days don't mean more work. or 3 upper and 2 lower and add a few more sets on the lower body days. or even like you say 2 upper 2 lower. this will most likely be a longer workout depending on what you put in it. you can do A-B workouts or just a single workout, depends if you think its balanced enough.

    why not throw out the side raise and do OHP and upright rows.

    Personally for me, overhead press sucks ass, not to mention I can't move any weight if I do any tricep exercises before hand, or after.

    and that is proving that a compound OHP is far better. you say yourself you can't move any weight after, its not about looking good moving weight, its about kicking those muscle into gear and getting them working hard so they grow. its the best advice I can give.
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    Sbaker34
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    « Reply #6 on: January 21, 2012, 02:15:29 PM »

    so many ways you can do it. easy option is do 3 upper and 3 lower keeping the sets low. more days don't mean more work. or 3 upper and 2 lower and add a few more sets on the lower body days. or even like you say 2 upper 2 lower. this will most likely be a longer workout depending on what you put in it. you can do A-B workouts or just a single workout, depends if you think its balanced enough.

    why not throw out the side raise and do OHP and upright rows.

    Personally for me, overhead press sucks ass, not to mention I can't move any weight if I do any tricep exercises before hand, or after.

    and that is proving that a compound OHP is far better. you say yourself you can't move any weight after, its not about looking good moving weight, its about kicking those muscle into gear and getting them working hard so they grow. its the best advice I can give.


    My shoulders pretty much are the best indicators for how well it works for me personally, Overhead press works triceps well, but due to lack of flexibility, and possibly just physical build, It only works front delts for me. I didn't get any side delts until I started doing raises.
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    Paralysisxiii
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    « Reply #7 on: January 21, 2012, 02:56:38 PM »

    If you move a full body to 4x per week you'll probably burn out. I've heard the hip-knee dominant and vertical-horizontal splitting for 4 day and the linear-lateral split too.

    I've liked my experience with Westside for Skinny Bastards and it's a solid template to mess around with and the Westside work allows for a clear breakdown and different methods across 4 days. You can get workout time down to about 40 minutes per workout if you do it right. I find myself using more time but I add and exchange exercises for one's I find to be superior or that will give me extra benefit.

    Only thing I wouldn't recommend personally is doing a 4 day body part split, the other splits and philosophies make more sense and in my belief will allow you more benefits and focus. 

    There's some good books that'd be food for thought if you need recommendations.
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    Hooloovoo
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    « Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 03:48:27 PM »

    I'd personally do your lower before upperbody workouts. So:
    LB1, UB1, Rest, LB2, UB2, Rest, Rest
    This.

    I'm about to start doing an upper/lower split as well. I'll essentially be doing a 4 DAW version of Madcow plus chinups and deadlift assistance. Once I don't make any more progress I'll go to a hip/knee lower and horizontal/vertical upper split.
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    vertigo66
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    « Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 01:11:42 AM »

    If you move a full body to 4x per week you'll probably burn out. I've heard the hip-knee dominant and vertical-horizontal splitting for 4 day and the linear-lateral split too.

    I've liked my experience with Westside for Skinny Bastards and it's a solid template to mess around with and the Westside work allows for a clear breakdown and different methods across 4 days. You can get workout time down to about 40 minutes per workout if you do it right. I find myself using more time but I add and exchange exercises for one's I find to be superior or that will give me extra benefit.

    Only thing I wouldn't recommend personally is doing a 4 day body part split, the other splits and philosophies make more sense and in my belief will allow you more benefits and focus. 

    There's some good books that'd be food for thought if you need recommendations.

    This is very true, but with that said if you take care with set numbers 1 or 2 only sets and don't do to many exercise repeating the same body parts it can be done. I made the same mistakes when I first tried this. and I quickly started showing signs of fatigue. but with deloading and progressive overloading you can overcome the problems. I now only spend 1 or 2 wks out of six working at max weight. after this heavy cycle I deload and rep change and work back up. but in simple terms if you just do the same work over more days you will burn out.

    if you want to learn how to do a split, upper/ lower over 4 to 6 days without burning out turn to HST principals and look at advanced workouts. the basic HST is full body, but some of the advanced versions are just like you say, 4 or 6 day splits.   
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    Alsavier
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    « Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 03:07:32 AM »

    I'd recommend perhaps a 3day split, standard

    Chest/Shoulder/Tri (maybe alternate bench and overhead press enphasis each week)
    rest
    Legs
    Rest
    Back/Bicep

    Rather than going straight to something like PHAT. (Which I think is what your doing?)

    I'd also recommend just designing your own routine, I personally train like this;

    Overhead Press Day e.g. Shoulder day
    Deadlift Day E.g. Back day
    Squat Day e.g. Leg day
    Bench Day e.g. Chest day
    (under going changes atm however)

    Enphasis on focusing on one main movement, and then it's assistance work afterwards.

    Example;
    Press, triples
    DB press sets of 8
    Side raises mainly to give tri's a break
    Single Arm standing press high reps, about 10-12
    JM press sets of 5
    Rope push down 10reps strict form, other wise theres no real point.

    Or something.
    It's all about getting stronger, but you also do quite abit of volume because the shoulders won't be hit again till chest day which could be 3days later in some cases, depending on how you set it up.
    I've followed this kind of template since end of October, lifts and size have continued to improve hugely. about 78kg to 83kg BW for example.

    Start off slowish at first, get used to this new type of routine, about a 1 week period. See how it all feels. I found I had to increase eating about 1k calories a day to make sure recovery was good, if you find your acheing too much (e.g. triceps battered from shoudler day, and now it's time to do bench) then just spread the tricep volume through both days. Theres alot of room for improvisation from week to week, if your just too tired to train heavy but can still train like a beast, then just make it a hypertrophy day. A pure strength routine can just piss you off when the body sets it's limitations, this kind of routine is the best of both. (Although not really the best at either, but fairly close.)






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    BergstromRapz
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    « Reply #11 on: February 26, 2012, 11:55:18 PM »

    why not throw out the side raise and do OHP and upright rows.

    at higher weight, upright row pinches the shouldercuffs which is bad. side raises are safer
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