JayTheKing
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« on: January 01, 2012, 01:34:46 AM » |
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Im due to start wendlers 5/3/1 strength routine. but because my gym is closed till tuesday, will it be alright if i start it on Wednesday and have my last day 3 on sunday and carry on as normal starting again on monday wednesday friday.
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"Paint is weakness leaving the body"
Goals:
Be #1 body builder under 90kg
Get to 70kg for body building competition in May
Get an 8 pack-so i can great my cheese
Do 25 pull ups
do 200 push ups
Achieved Goals:
6 pack
100 push ups
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Murderous
Tears will get you sympathy sweat will get you results
Übergnome
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2012, 01:55:45 AM » |
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5/3/1 is for the minimum intermediate lifter, I wouldn't start if you still can't deadlift 2.2×bw, bench 1.5×bw or squat 2×bw as a minimum. Or if your progress is really slow then I would go for 5/3/1.
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JayTheKing
Bulking Gnome
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 02:22:08 AM » |
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5/3/1 is for the minimum intermediate lifter, I wouldn't start if you still can't deadlift 2.2×bw, bench 1.5×bw or squat 2×bw as a minimum. Or if your progress is really slow then I would go for 5/3/1.
after 4 de-loads in the past 4 months, i havent been able to increase any of my lifts, even changing the routine and rep range around. Whats wrong with starting on it now. Ive read his book and he talks about starting low and taking it up, and i like the way he has designed the routine. It might just be what i need. Stuck on 90% 1RM 72kgBW 110kg squat 80kg bench 50kg press 135kg Deadlift |
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Logged
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"Paint is weakness leaving the body"
Goals:
Be #1 body builder under 90kg
Get to 70kg for body building competition in May
Get an 8 pack-so i can great my cheese
Do 25 pull ups
do 200 push ups
Achieved Goals:
6 pack
100 push ups
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Murderous
Tears will get you sympathy sweat will get you results
Übergnome
Reputation Power: 1
Posts: 3536
Always Motivated
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2012, 02:25:19 AM » |
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Are you doing SS/SL?
When I used to do my customized SL I NEVER deloaded. They only have you deload because obviously you can't progress at the same rate anymore and it is just pointless for beginners to do since they are not advanced enough to do certain training programming. If you take a look at my PD you could get an idea of what I do that still keeps me averaging 15 lbish a month (that is, if I don't miss any training days.)
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JayTheKing
Bulking Gnome
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2012, 02:30:17 AM » |
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SS. Are you saying its pointless to do because my strength gains will be 0 or is it because the way the routine is design? one exercise dedicated to one day?
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Logged
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"Paint is weakness leaving the body"
Goals:
Be #1 body builder under 90kg
Get to 70kg for body building competition in May
Get an 8 pack-so i can great my cheese
Do 25 pull ups
do 200 push ups
Achieved Goals:
6 pack
100 push ups
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Umbra
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2012, 09:04:56 AM » |
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SS. Are you saying its pointless to do because my strength gains will be 0 or is it because the way the routine is design? one exercise dedicated to one day?
He's saying it's faster if you do SS/SL. You don't weigh enough to keep progressing that's why you're not really doing SS |
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You could do a lot worse than being a Rippetoe fanboy...
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tommitulip
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2012, 09:20:20 AM » |
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5/3/1 is for the minimum intermediate lifter, I wouldn't start if you still can't deadlift 2.2×bw, bench 1.5×bw or squat 2×bw as a minimum. Or if your progress is really slow then I would go for 5/3/1.
Quoted from the 5/3/1 ebook: Question: Is this program for advanced or beginner lifters? Answer: I’ve used this program with both beginning and advanced lifters.
Steady, slow progression will never go out of fashion, and neither will the big exercises.
The trick is to teach beginners correct form at the start.
For advanced lifters, the most important thing is to remember long term goals, and not basing unrealistic maxes on what you did four years ago.
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tommitulip
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 09:23:02 AM » |
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5/3/1 is for the minimum intermediate lifter, I wouldn't start if you still can't deadlift 2.2×bw, bench 1.5×bw or squat 2×bw as a minimum. Or if your progress is really slow then I would go for 5/3/1.
after 4 de-loads in the past 4 months, i havent been able to increase any of my lifts, even changing the routine and rep range around. Whats wrong with starting on it now. Ive read his book and he talks about starting low and taking it up, and i like the way he has designed the routine. It might just be what i need. Stuck on 90% 1RM 72kgBW 110kg squat 80kg bench 50kg press 135kg Deadlift Hi! My humble opinion: GO for it! :-) Check my log and see my lifts are weaker than yours as I stalled on SL after struggling 8 months. I started Wendler and have fun with it!! Happy Lifting! Thomas |
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Umbra
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2012, 10:48:52 AM » |
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Guys, your progress would be 4000x faster if you did SS and SL as intended and actually ate enough. Solving that problem by going on a program that lets you progress so slowly that you can do it as a novice while under-eating is a poor way to fix your problems
Btw my lifts were not much higher (and lower for some lifts) when I decided to get off of SS and move onto a weekly progression program, so I know I'm being a hypocrite. I plan on going back to SS when I've gotten other stuff sorted and eating everything I can and I hope you will as well.
Think about it: 8 months on a linear progression program, even if you started with just the bar (10-20kg depending on quality) would mean you'd be squatting 250kg. Take away time spent resetting, learning form, bad days, whatever and you'd still be squatting over 200kg provided your linear progression lasted that long (and in some cases it has!).
Guys don't go doing a really slow program when it's not necessary because you can't be bothered/won't eat enough (like me). If you need inspiration go check out some of the gains made in 6 months on the SS forum. I don't speak from experience but anyone on that site who's done it properly will tell you that a 2/3/4 (200lbs bench press, 300lbs squat, 400lbs deadlift) before progress stops is hardly a rarity
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You could do a lot worse than being a Rippetoe fanboy...
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JayTheKing
Bulking Gnome
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2012, 10:52:04 AM » |
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SS. Are you saying its pointless to do because my strength gains will be 0 or is it because the way the routine is design? one exercise dedicated to one day?
He's saying it's faster if you do SS/SL. You don't weigh enough to keep progressing that's why you're not really doing SS I think its more to do with the volume, squating 3 times for per week, benching/pressing twice a week is starting to get to much. Im not worried about how how long its going to take me to put on more weight i just want to pass my current maxes. |
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Logged
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"Paint is weakness leaving the body"
Goals:
Be #1 body builder under 90kg
Get to 70kg for body building competition in May
Get an 8 pack-so i can great my cheese
Do 25 pull ups
do 200 push ups
Achieved Goals:
6 pack
100 push ups
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juanRM1992
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2012, 11:07:17 AM » |
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I see nothing wrong with 5/3/1 for non-advanced. Yes, it is slow but gains are steady and stalling hardly happens ( Lets take one year as example, that would be 120lbs gain for squats and deads and 60lbs for bp and press. I believe you should start with a linear progression (SS or SL) for 12-24 weeks, get form right, beginners gains and all that bullshit and then move to other non-linear programs (Texas method, westside, madcow, 5/3/1). Telling someone to keep doing linear for a year and keep on deloading its... well.. boring  I say meet these goals before moving out of SS or SL good form (number 1 reason for linear routines; movement practice) 1.5xBW Squat 2xBW deadlift 1xBW BP If you are really close to those number but keep on stalling, move to texas or madcow since you will stay maintain high frequency (varying intensity, of course) and then more advanced programs  |
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Umbra
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2012, 11:37:00 AM » |
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I see nothing wrong with 5/3/1 for non-advanced. Yes, it is slow but gains are steady and stalling hardly happens ( Lets take one year as example, that would be 120lbs gain for squats and deads and 60lbs for bp and press. I believe you should start with a linear progression (SS or SL) for 12-24 weeks, get form right, beginners gains and all that bullshit and then move to other non-linear programs (Texas method, westside, madcow, 5/3/1). Telling someone to keep doing linear for a year and keep on deloading its... well.. boring I say meet these goals before moving out of SS or SL good form (number 1 reason for linear routines; movement practice) 1.5xBW Squat 2xBW deadlift 1xBW BP If you are really close to those number but keep on stalling, move to texas or madcow since you will stay maintain high frequency (varying intensity, of course) and then more advanced programs Sorry but that advice is tosh. I think you guys misunderstand what it means to actually do these programs. They're not just doing the exercises and in the right order, you have to actually eat and gain weight. You will NOT be able to do the texas method with the lack of eating that got you a fraction of the away through linear progression. You're not trying to meet arbitrary number x bw goals before stopping SS or SL... you're supposed to do it and do it properly until it stops working Again you're justifying 5/3/1 by saying it's STEADY small progression, which I don't doubt but doing a slower program because you refuse to eat enough to make a far more efficient (for a novice) program work for you is a really, really poor reason to jump on it. I even think the only reason 5/3/1 would work is because you're in the novice stage and strength gains are easier now. If you got to the level of adaption where this sort of program was necessary (jumping to a slower progression program should always only be done when necessary) - which would be flipping ages on this program - while still under-eating, I reckon you would fail to make progress even at 5/3/1. You cannot consider yourself in need of advanced programming because you refuse to do what is necessary to progress through the novice stage |
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« Last Edit: January 01, 2012, 11:39:52 AM by Umbra »
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JayTheKing
Bulking Gnome
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Posts: 510
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2012, 11:45:09 AM » |
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I see nothing wrong with 5/3/1 for non-advanced. Yes, it is slow but gains are steady and stalling hardly happens ( Lets take one year as example, that would be 120lbs gain for squats and deads and 60lbs for bp and press. I believe you should start with a linear progression (SS or SL) for 12-24 weeks, get form right, beginners gains and all that bullshit and then move to other non-linear programs (Texas method, westside, madcow, 5/3/1). Telling someone to keep doing linear for a year and keep on deloading its... well.. boring I say meet these goals before moving out of SS or SL good form (number 1 reason for linear routines; movement practice) 1.5xBW Squat 2xBW deadlift 1xBW BP If you are really close to those number but keep on stalling, move to texas or madcow since you will stay maintain high frequency (varying intensity, of course) and then more advanced programs Sorry but that advice is tosh. I think you guys misunderstand what it means to actually do these programs. They're not just doing the exercises and in the right order, you have to actually eat and gain weight. You will NOT be able to do the texas method with the lack of eating that got you a fraction of the away through linear progression. You're not trying to meet arbitrary number x bw goals before stopping SS or SL... you're supposed to do it and do it properly until it stops working Again you're justifying 5/3/1 by saying it's STEADY small progression, which I don't doubt but doing a slower program because you refuse to eat enough to make a far more efficient (for a novice) program work for you is a really, really poor reason to jump on it. I even think the only reason 5/3/1 would work is because you're in the novice stage and strength gains are easier now. If you got to the level of adaption where this sort of program was necessary (jumping to a slower progression program should always only be done when necessary) - which would be flipping ages on this program - while still under-eating, I reckon you would fail to make progress even at 5/3/1. You cannot consider yourself in need of advanced programming because you refuse to do what is necessary to progress through the novice stageThe thing is, i am eating the recommended calories of 3000, thats 800 more than my TDEE. And i have gain weight from it, because at the start of the year i was 65-66kg now im 72kg. So my eating is not the problem, neither is my form. If you really thing doing 5/3/1 will do hardly anything for me ill do SS again starting from the bottom and working my way up again. Was looking forward to trying something new lol. |
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Logged
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"Paint is weakness leaving the body"
Goals:
Be #1 body builder under 90kg
Get to 70kg for body building competition in May
Get an 8 pack-so i can great my cheese
Do 25 pull ups
do 200 push ups
Achieved Goals:
6 pack
100 push ups
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yoyoman
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2012, 11:48:34 AM » |
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Wendlers 5/3/1 is a great program and very flexable. Jim covers off a sepecific chapter in his new edition of the book 5/3/1 on beginners. I have pasted it below 5/3/1 for Beginners
Generally, I tell everyone to just do the program as is, regardless of training age.
Of course, if you’re a trainer and are using the program with a novice athlete or someone new to training, simply use your experience to make whatever changes are required – though there shouldn’t be many.
Now if you’re a beginner and are working out without any guidance whatsoever, it’s probably best to just stick with the basic program. One of the worst things a young lifter can do is take advice from other beginners on message boards – they usually have all the advice and none of the experience.
Below is one beginner modification that’s permissible, and effective. It’s a subtle, easy way to add in some extra work on the main lifts without compromising the program or the philosophies it was built upon.
You perform a full-body routine, three days a week. Full body strength routines are the best way for novice lifters to quickly get strong, provided the program is non-retarded (i.e. adheres to an intelligent progression system).
Instead of just one main lift per workout (using the 5/3/1 set-up), two main lifts are used for additional weekly exposures. The second main lift, however, should not be performed 5/3/1 style; instead, use a standard 3 sets of 5 reps, starting at 55% of your training 1RM for the first set of 5 and increasing the weight by 10% each successive set.
The exception is the deadlifting day with presses as the second lift. Just do 5/3/1 here across the board.
90
The program is set up the same way – taking 90% of your max and working up slowly. All percentages are based on that training max.
The first thing I’ll be asked is, “What do I do for assistance work?” Because you’re doing a full body routine each day and using compound lifts, you need to keep the assistance work to a minimum. Chins, dips, back raises, neck work, and curls will serve you well. Stick with that.
The program is nothing revolutionary, but it’s effective. When you’re given a training max and the exact percentages to use every workout, it removes all doubt as to what’s heavy, medium, or light. This is simple and easy to use for any beginner.
Intermediate lifters, provided the percentages on the non-5/3/1 days are lowered by 10 percent each set, can also use this basic structure. (As you get more experienced, you can’t handle the extra work at a heavier percentage.)
Monday
Squat – 5/3/1 sets/reps Bench – 55%x5, 65×5%, 75%x5 Assistance work
Wednesday
Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets/reps Press – 5/3/1 sets/reps Assistance work
Friday
Bench – 5/3/1 sets/reps Squat – 55%x5, 65%x5, 75%x5 Assistance work |
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juanRM1992
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 11:53:40 AM » |
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@yoyoman.. interesting.. may I ask where you got that info from? I want to read more! Also, how would the progression go for that 3x5 work? is it monthly add 5-10lbs? |
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