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4L4R
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« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2012, 08:22:19 AM »

Seems you misunderstood. Tell me any advantage a fly offers over a press? All it seems to do is increase chance of injury by giving a torn pec or shoulder problem.

the fly reduces the use of the stabilizer muscle that are more engaged in a pressing motion such as the triceps. Another advantage of the the fly is the ability to stretch and work the pecs using a lighter weight than a press ( if you are limited at home with a lack of weight the fly has a great advantage to your chest routine over a press )
The dumbbell fly also eliminates the elbow joint in the movement.  
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Wildo1
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« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2012, 08:37:37 AM »

I get compliments on my pecs, from guys, all the time.
and i follow Scoobys chst work out that involves flies/press in the same set.
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KaplanT4
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« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2012, 08:40:59 AM »

I never said flies dont stretch / work the chest. But the fact is the pec major is not worked anymore whether in a fly or press position.
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« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2012, 08:49:01 AM »

I never said flies dont stretch / work the chest. But the fact is the pec major is not worked anymore whether in a fly or press position.

You did say they do not stretch your pecs a few posts ago. NOBODY said that flies were BETTER or worked pecs HARDER!  I'm saying that the claim of " flies are useless" is just stupid and they do work and stretch chest very well.
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1rs
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« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2012, 08:52:38 AM »

Flies are not useless.
It's a good exercise for isolating the chest. IMO, they should not be done if you are not advanced. It's proven that changing the exercises you have never done before increases the size of the muscle or strength. Here is the website.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/ChangeWtEx.html
According to t-nation it does work your chest well, even more than pressing movements.
Here is a table, you can check this out
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/inside_the_muscles_best_chest_and_triceps_exercises
I don't agree with you that flies are useless. It's a good exercise  Smiley
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KaplanT4
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« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2012, 08:58:29 AM »

My statement that flies are useless should be understood in the context of what Im trying to say. Which is that they're useless if you think your getting anything extra from them. Like I said you can incorporate the squeezing at the top with DB's.
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« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2012, 09:02:30 AM »

My statement that flies are useless should be understood in the context of what Im trying to say. Which is that they're useless if you think your getting anything extra from them. Like I said you can incorporate the squeezing at the top with DB's.

I already explaind to you it's not the same and again as I mentioned when you get higher in the weights its DANGEROUS!!.. I'm sorry but im not going to be twisting 110lbs dumbells when I can do flies which is far superior to just twisting dumbells
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1rs
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« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2012, 09:29:16 AM »

My statement that flies are useless should be understood in the context of what Im trying to say. Which is that they're useless if you think your getting anything extra from them. Like I said you can incorporate the squeezing at the top with DB's.
Yes you can, but it won't be an isolation exercise anymore  Smiley
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ozmuz
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    « Reply #53 on: February 06, 2012, 04:40:53 PM »

    @kaplanT4,  Did you look up the muscle mentioned in the Vid or not ?? the guy is giving his opinion and not providing evidence to back it to get business.
    You only have to feel the pec with one hand to feel the difference, look at Arnies fly from the bench to floor, there is no way a press can stimulate the outer fibers as his rediculous ROM, Look at Gironda`s hybrid between press and fly, far more stimulation than a standard press. If you got 2 years experience like you say, How have you proved this for yourself?  The stupid mistake most take is not understanding the muscles used in a compound and don`t know how to drop the weight for isolation exercises like this where triceps are not a major player. This lack of knowledge  is prob the main reason beginners are encouraged to stick with simple compounds but it is exploited by many trainers..
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    Paralysisxiii
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    « Reply #54 on: February 06, 2012, 06:00:06 PM »

    Everything I originally said still hold for the superiority of fly's over pressing...Possibly better pec emg activation, greater pec tension and much greater tension with something like a ring fly. Also absolutely superior for EQI's.

    It's just being ignorant to say there is no situation in which a fly is superior. Is a press generally superior? Sure, most cases, most goals. But that is in no way to say it's JUST better, always. You can't achieve the same stimulus with a press.
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    Dille
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    « Reply #55 on: February 06, 2012, 07:56:13 PM »

    Agree with the guy in the video but there is 2 more points which should be considered. The first is moment arm length and how it makes these exercises differ. Moment arm in flyes compared to press is roughly doubled making it a lot easier to work the chest with a lot lighter weights to get the same stress to your chest thus it might be easier on the shoulder joint if done properly. = It's harder to come out from the hardest position of the lift. The second part is that fly is an isolation exercise without forearm extension = Pectoral muscles + deltoid will generate that torque which brings the weight up. Making it good for person who lacks weights and his dumbbells got light for pressing or who wants to work his chest and delts without working triceps.

    Mighty paint skills to explain my point:


    Agreed with Paralysisxiii Smiley
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    « Reply #56 on: February 07, 2012, 12:12:29 AM »

    This is kind of a weird statement.  To say that the DB flies are completely useless for the chest because it only works with one joint is like saying leg extensions are useless because it only works with the knee.  Isolation exercises are not as useless as every one thinks they are...Stay safe!
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    SiR-ROUND
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    « Reply #57 on: February 07, 2012, 01:48:40 AM »

    Awesome paint skills!

    Flies feel good... Isolation isn't bad at all, they are great for that finishing touch.
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    kalvin
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    « Reply #58 on: February 07, 2012, 04:21:42 AM »

    But you dont need flies to get extra hypertrophy on the chest. You can incorporate the squeeze at the top of a fly into the press easily.

    Sweaty hands + squeezing at the top of the press = a good way for the hands to slide and the bar to fall.
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    King Neptune
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    « Reply #59 on: February 07, 2012, 05:42:52 AM »

    Agree with the guy in the video but there is 2 more points which should be considered. The first is moment arm length and how it makes these exercises differ. Moment arm in flyes compared to press is roughly doubled making it a lot easier to work the chest with a lot lighter weights to get the same stress to your chest thus it might be easier on the shoulder joint if done properly. = It's harder to come out from the hardest position of the lift. The second part is that fly is an isolation exercise without forearm extension = Pectoral muscles + deltoid will generate that torque which brings the weight up. Making it good for person who lacks weights and his dumbbells got light for pressing or who wants to work his chest and delts without working triceps.

    Mighty paint skills to explain my point:


    Agreed with Paralysisxiii Smiley


    Well done Smiley I tend to agree with you two, and love ring flies. However, what you said about them being easier on the shoulder joint does not follow. You use lighter weights, because of the longer levers, but the torque will still be important (because of the long levers!), and it isn't distributed over several joints. For that reason, they can like other isolations, be really tough on the joints too Smiley
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