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greierusu1
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2009, 11:49:48 AM » |
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wow thanks goldie cleared things thing up +KARMA
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My "Stats" 170lbs 5' 11" 2-pack (4-Pack lightly showing) 32" waist (not flexing abs) Goals: Bulky 6-Pack And weigh 200
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Choi
Applying Gnome
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2009, 05:51:56 PM » |
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just mirrors?
i use measure tape to measure my arm and other body parts, but i do not know, wether i lose couple of inch because i lost fat, or muscle.
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Uglok
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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 03:48:47 AM » |
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Just a side note on "burning" proteins;
- Remember all muscles in your body are slowly being broken down. Irrevocable fact - this has nothing to do with starvation or similar, more a case of efficiency as skeletal muscle requires such a high energy input to maintain your body is always looking for an excuse to get rid of it. Before any of you panic, remember that you use nearly all the muscles in your body every day just doing normal activities. I am talking about complete inactivity here (which is why people with serious knee/ankle surgery who literally cannot use certain leg muscles for a month or two afterwards lose inches from inactivity. However, this also means the bigger you get, the slightly more stimulus you require to maintain that muscle.
- Free amino acids (circulating in the blood) are respired at their highest rate relatively early on - around the same time as fats start to be respired at their highest proportion or slightly before. But even then, like glycogen and glucose although rates fall below normal (basal) levels, they are not completely used up by any means.
- Exercise intensity speeds up the 'starvation' response - little obvious as of course energy resources are depleted faster! "In many respects the overall metabolic response to prolonged exercise is strikingly similar to that observed after 3 days of starvation." (although this is refering to 4hrs of continuous mild-moderate intensity exercise) G Ahlborg et al. (1974) Substrate Turnover during Prolonged Exercise in Man, J Clin Invest. 53, pp1080-1090
Although protein is metabolised - unless you're in the habit of frequently running marathons - you aren't going to significantly effect muscle catabolism by doing cardio - especially not if you're following Scooby's 3-4hr meal advice!
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infanti
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 09:26:42 AM » |
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Very good explanation.
I have 2 questions though.
1 - What happens with the anorexic people? They actually pass days without eating anything? Because they clearly deplete their muscles and organs till death.
2 - I've read that the body constantly manages the anabolic and catabolic processes in a way to adapt constantly (energy usage/consuption) once the muscles are the main energy burners. They said that there is a possibility that the steroids would actually reduce catabolism so the anabolic/catabolic balance would bend to positive anabolism. This would be managed also by myostatin which inhibit protein production. (xxx: xxx: usatodayxxx: /news/health/2004-06-23-baby-muscles_x. htm) So, I'm a little confused. I seams to me that we might lose muscle by this process, although I agree with your previous point.
Could you enlighten me?
Best regards
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Uglok
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 10:17:40 AM » |
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Very good explanation.
I have 2 questions though.
1 - What happens with the anorexic people? They actually pass days without eating anything? Because they clearly deplete their muscles and organs till death.
2 - I've read that the body constantly manages the anabolic and catabolic processes in a way to adapt constantly (energy usage/consuption) once the muscles are the main energy burners. They said that there is a possibility that the steroids would actually reduce catabolism so the anabolic/catabolic balance would bend to positive anabolism. This would be managed also by myostatin which inhibit protein production. (xxx: xxx: usatodayxxx: /news/health/2004-06-23-baby-muscles_x. htm) So, I'm a little confused. I seams to me that we might lose muscle by this process, although I agree with your previous point.
Could you enlighten me?
Best regards
1 - This is much more gradual. Read my very first point in my previous post. 2 - same as above! However bear in mind that if you mess with ANY metabolic system, especially with such a universally-accepted mediator such as a steroid (which has different effects on a number of cell types), then you'll be screwing with the balance of a number of other completely unrelated systems too (ranging from blood pressure, Ca uptake, bone growth, etc. etc.).
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killerclick
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2009, 11:31:47 AM » |
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In my experience this is false. I've been into weight training for more than five years and every time I lose fat, I also lose muscle (become weaker, my muscles get smaller, etc) no matter how strict my diet is. This is also the case with everyone I know that isn't previously untrained.
This may be hard to spot for people who do bodyweight exercises (I do more pullups and pushups when I'm lighter) but when dealing with constant weight it's obvious that loss of fat inevitably includes a loss of muscle strength. This is especially hard to spot for people who use the mirror to estimate muscle loss or muscle gain.
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gigel2006
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2009, 12:08:18 PM » |
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The post above me is true only if you lose fat too much and too fast. Your body is smart and if it detects signs of starvation it will simply slow down your metabolism and lower your performance, because if you'd be starving and still maintain your huge performance it would lead to imminent death more quickly.
As to what Goldie wrote, it's a nice post, but I want to add that protein is not the last that is broken down when in starvation mode. The body will break down protein along with fat.
It won't be in stages, fat, and protein last because in order to break down protein in requires energy, so if there is no fat left it can't break that protein. This is how rabbit starvation works, but also Fatkins diet. So it's mixed breakdown.
As Uglok said your body goes through catabolic stages all the time, the main reason not worry about this is that it simply has some sort of border where it takes and puts constantly. This is defined strictly because you'll never see your body going to extremes in one day. So it has it's small margins where it can take and put back. Through exercise you gain muscle let's say, since you've created a demand, that border will go up on top the new gains.
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Marine475
Fiendish evil monkey.
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2009, 02:26:04 PM » |
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Great post, i'd just add for those who don't know:
Glycogen stores in the body are starch chains, which get stored in the body as fat. This is why you shouldn't eat too many processed sugars, as the monosaccharide Glucose is the mainly used one. Fructose is a natural sugar produced by fruit which will not get stored as fat in the body.
Sucrose is another regularly used sugar in food. However it is a Disaccharide (two - sugar) formed by the combination of glucose and fructose. In your body it is hydrolized into the constituent molecules, and glucose is stored as glycogen chains (starch) in the body.
This causes fat stores. This is the reason that you can "burn" fat far more easily than muscle, as fat is meant to be an energy store.
Christ man, your post made my eyes bleed.
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ryumariscal
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its all about hard work
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2009, 03:50:15 PM » |
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I heard of another myth of burning your muscle.. which is basically that supposibly if you workout too hard for example chest u might burn ur muscle and you will not be able to gain muscle. Find this not true but Ive heard it alot what u guys think???
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NOW 6 ft 180 10%fat (i think) Goal: Clean 8pac
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Marine475
Fiendish evil monkey.
Bulking Gnome
 
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2009, 01:19:41 AM » |
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Anyway, the key to "burning muscle myth" is cortisol levels after cardio workout  Not how the body obtains energy during it.
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howdyyall
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2009, 08:40:19 PM » |
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Sorry, but I don't really agree with this. If cardio doesn't burn muscle than why don't we see guys walking around with zero percent body fat?
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moonsugarvehk
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« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2009, 08:46:57 PM » |
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if you had 0% you'd be dead...
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the new bulking up FAQ"you can't trust science, it has been corrected" -some fundie "never take life seriously; you should be LAUGHING when you kill" -bionicdance "you don't base principles on one bit of anecdotal evidence" -td
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rap008
Hardwork pays off
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« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2009, 08:50:34 PM » |
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goldie i will really appreciate it if you can post the sources where you get all those informations. . Thanks a lot! I just want to see the credibility of the source
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Goldie
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2009, 08:11:38 AM » |
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I got this info from a LOT of different sources, so it would be hard to list them all. Do a google search on "metabolism", "catabolism", famine, and starvation. There was so much out there that was duplicated, I summarized and simplfied as much as I could.
I always make sure to get my data from impartial sites--not bodybuilding sites or sites selling things, but places like the Mayo Clinic, WebMD, US National Institutes of Health; and from scientific research papers.
I actually looked into getting an account at a couple of the physiology journal sites, but they want BIG BUCKS just to be able to read their journals! Like, $1,000 or more a YEAR !!!
We have some members here who have a lot more knowledge about this than I do, maybe one of them can find us a few good references on this topic.
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You make your choices, and you live with them. In the end, you are those choices.
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rap008
Hardwork pays off
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« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2009, 10:48:07 AM » |
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oh thanks. WebMD and the institute of health is a reliable source imo because i use that on some of my thesis paper. ty goldie
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