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Author Topic: Creatine FAQ - Read this before asking about creatine  (Read 31155 times)
Uglok
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    « on: November 01, 2009, 04:50:47 AM »

    Quick True/False
     - Creatine can make you marginally faster/stronger for brief periods of time – true.
     - You will gain lb’s of muscle within months thanks to creatine – false.
     - Creatine can improve aerobic endurance (long distance running) – false.
     - Creatine helps prolong anaerobic endurance (sprinting) – true.
     - You can push an extra rep out more easily with creatine – true.
     - You can double the amount of work you can do each session with creatine – false.
     - Creatine will stunt or affect your growth somehow - false.

    OK, before I get going I may well explain the kind of slang I use when writing papers, so before I lose any of you, here’s a quick explanation of what I mean. When I go (Generic name et al., 2000) i’m referring specifically to a reference at the very end of this post if you want to read up something in more detail.

    Abbreviations I use include:
    Cr = Creatine, PCr = phosphocreatine/creatine phosphate (both are the same thing), CK = creatine kinase, ATP = Adenosine triphosphate – the “energy currency” in your cells.

    Anyway, onwards. I’m not going to go into the depths of respiration here, as that’ll take all day (ironically enough this took 7-8hrs or so in total to research and write this post). However as I have to start somewhere i’ll summarise briefly.


    Muscle Energy
    Aerobic respiration can be summarised as glucose + oxygen -> carbon dioxide + water + energy.
    Sounds simple - in reality it isn’t - but what you need to know is that the energy comes in the form of ATP. For each glucose molecule broken down aerobically ideally 38 ATP molecules are made. Lots and lots of energy available. However – this process takes time.

    So if you needed a quick burst of energy (a 100m sprint for example, or benching a heavy weight) there is a faster method of getting the energy required – anaerobic respiration. This is basically 1/4 of the aerobic process, but results in pyruvate (lactate precursor) and only 2 ATP per glucose broken down. Very inefficient, but very quick. The “lactic acid” buildup (not to mention lack of energy) shows why you are limited in anaerobic bursts – cellular pH starts to drop and cramping/pain will occur if you try and push through this. Also extra oxygen is required to convert the lactate to a respireable form.

    Without going too deep, ATP is a high energy state molecule that WANTS to break apart to a lower energy state - energy release is what gets used for cellular processes.


    So where does creatine fit into all this?
    If ATP is the currency of cells, Phosphocreatine is the savings account – when energy is required for a cellular process (be this muscle contraction or pumping of ions into the cell, etc.), ATP is broken down into ADP (adenosine diphosphate) and Phosphate, releasing energy in the process.

    PCr can donate its phosphate group (and subsequent energy store) to ADP very quickly to regenerate ATP:
         ADP + PCr -> ATP + Cr
    Therefore, if you are sprinting, ATP in the cell will plummet, ADP will rise significantly. PCr works within milliseconds to attempt to restore the lost ATP to allow extra energy, acting s a buffer.

    Creatine supplementation has been shown to increase muscular endurance and (to a certain extent) increase initial strength (Persky & Rawson, 2007) (van Loon et al., 2004) (Vandenberghe et al., 1996).


    Where does phosphocreatine come from?
    Well, like almost everything else in your system it comes from your food.  Creatine or derivatives (phosphocreatine, esterfied or other chemically modified versions) are absorbed into your system and transported to the cells, where they become phosphorylated by ATP. So basically, when at rest you will naturally restore cellular ATP and PCr stores.
    PCr will be present in most tissues, especially muscular and neural. Although [almost] everyone has creatine naturally present in them, supplementation can be (and in the world of sports frequently is) used to help increase performance.


    Why don’t we just have more ATP in our cells instead?
    If you were thinking this one before you read it, it sounds like you might have a future in research as you’re thinking like a scientist. Wink Cellular ATP being too high results in many unpleasant things, such as interfering with normal ‘housekeeping’ processes. Too much ATP and it can start to spontaneously degrade back to ADP, and that energy needs to go somewhere – perhaps randomly introduced into a slightly unstable protein required for cellular replication? This is all hypothetical because your cells have built in stop mechanisms to prevent too much ATP being made – such as negative feedback (ATP inhibits respiration).


    Dosage and Cycling
    To start off, a little fact: for those taking 10-20g of creatine as part of a ‘loading’ phase, you WILL be urinating out over 90% of this. Rarely gets more black and white than that.

    Cycling began as people became concerned over the long term benefits of supplementation. Correctly, the body does lessen the extent to which it can perform certain functions (not all) if they are no longer necessary.  A prime example is lactose intolerance; when a baby is weaned, the child’s lactase (the enzyme that breaks down lactose) levels decrease by up to and over 90%. Those that are genetically predisposed or environmentally do not experience lactose in their system can completely lose the ability to synthesise lactase (decrease 100%!), thus are said to be intolerant.

    So the idea with creatine is to ‘cycle’ it such that the body is forced to synthesise creatine when supplementation ends. Funnily enough though, what many people do not realise is that creatine levels after a month of ‘cycling’ are still fractionally above normal cellular levels 4 weeks after supplementation have stopped – indicating that little synthesis in the liver has occurred. With that in mind, personally I would advise 6-8weeks between cycles to allow for Cr levels to fall to a normal physiological state before starting a new cycle.

    The general dose (that I most commonly hear) is 10-20g/day for 5-7 days “loading” phase followed by ~3weeks of 3-5g/day maintenance. Sources I have read have indicated that not only are such high levels not required, but the “loading” phase (complete Cr saturation in muscles) only really takes 2-3days. As such it is just as effective (and considered safer for numerous reasons discussed later) to consider a loading phase of 10-12g/day for 3-5 days followed by 2-3g/day for the rest of the cycle. At these levels the concentration of Cr in the muscles will fall steadily over the month (it does this with the increased 'recommended' amounts anyway), but still remain in the 15-20% above normal range near saturation.

    Don’t forget, supplementing 2g/day you are probably ingesting double the amount of creatine that you would be without supplementation – and some of that is still excreted (a normal diet tends to consist of 1-2g creatine consumed/day). It is widely recommended that a single ‘cycle’ does not last more than 2-3months.
    Failing this, 5g/day of creatine for 7 days as a loading phase produces similar results to 20g/day for 3 days. It’s a personal call. Of course, bodyweight plays a factor too; if you’re over 180lbs of lean bodyweight then you will probably want to err on the side of 10g/day loading, 4-5g/day maintenance. For someone with under 150lbs lean mass, a maintenance of 2-3g/day is more than likely sufficient.  

    As hinted at, saturation occurs within a few days – so within a week you should be feeling a slight benefit to your activities from supplementation.

    As no long term effects study into creatine has taken place in humans to date, I cannot comment on whether or not supplementation will result in decrease in the ability to synthesise Cr; I can only speculate that it is better to play it safe rather than sorry – but of course it depends upon personal goals and aims too.


    When/how should creatine be taken?
    -- EDITED SECTION -- From trials myself and testimonies from others, timing of consumption makes no difference. It did not affect my workout nor normal health - and others reported the same.

    It is considered a good idea to spread out consumption if taking 5g+ in one day, for example if you wanted to take 10g, 5 in the morning and 5 in the evening. Generally a teaspoon is approx. 5g of creatine.

    Studies i’ve read always use water for creatine supplementation. I recommend you do the same; I can find nothing conclusive on how a fruit juice or dairy product may affect the Cr. With water, it has been shown that supplementation is effective.


    Improving creatine absorption
    Several sources have indicated that cellular intake of creatine is increased with the presence of insulin. This suggests that if a simple sugar is ingested around the same time as creatine, that the total skeletal muscle absorption should also increase slightly. That said, with a “loading phase” or similar that is Cr mostly being urinated out, muscle saturations will be reached within several days anyway. This information is probably more applicable to “maintenance” phases later in the cycle. (apologies for the lack of references here, but it was mentioned numerous times and should be easy to find amongst the list at the end of this post)


    Natural Creatine
    Creatine can be found in red meats (beef as a prime example) as well as fish. It is also synthesised naturally in the liver from a variety of amino acid precursors (Cancela et al., 2008). It has been suggested that cooking diminished creatine content, and this has elements of truth but to all intensive purposes this is not a significant degradation, levels generally falling to 50-70% of what they would otherwise be raw (Purchas et al, 2004). This coupled with natural synthesis means that you aren’t going to get insufficient creatine in your diet easily (i.e. – you don’t HAVE to supplement!). The bottom line is vegetarians and vegans do not lack creatine in their cells, indicating that the (generally trace) amounts from other foodstuffs and synthesis in the liver is sufficient for the body's needs.


    Better Creatine supplements?
    Is creatine monohydrate the most effective supplement? Surely creatine phosphate as that’s your physiological form of creatine? Or the “stable” creatine ethyl esters on the market? The answer: none of them.

    Irritatingly enough (this is something that gets me worked up as it’s the manipulation of science as an excuse to crank up prices) the simpler the form of creatine, frequently the better. Why? Because it’s normally the cheapest. To ingest Cr into blood serum, it needs to be broken down into exactly that – creatine! Therefore if you take phosphocreatine or any other chemically modified version, the same process will happen – it will be broken down to pure and simple creatine to be absorbed. This doesn’t mean the other derivatives will have less effective absorption rates. However normally you have to pay much more (normally 120-200%) for these substances. So you may as well go for the cheapest creatine-only (as in not mixed with caffeine/sugars etc.) brand – 9 times out of 10, creatine monohydrate. There are NO studies published at the moment showing that any other form increases the absorption – short of the insulin-trend increases mentioned earlier from consumption with sugar.


    Risks/side-effects of creatine use
    Although it is not a risk, the most prominent side effect is water retention: water is absorbed into tissues and retained to keep osmolarity in check. Basically, as a higher concentration of solutes is present in skeletal muscle (PCr increases), more water is required to keep the pressures the same. This results in a gain of weight from 1-2kg from Cr saturation.

    Like all chemicals, a small minority of people will react to exposure; most of these will be minor (light cramp, intestinal interference etc.) whilst very few will be much more severe (rhabdomyolyosis, formaldehyde formation).  Particularly worryingly, high levels of Cr dosage (20g+/day) for prolonged periods (10+ days) have resulted in an increase in cytotoxic chemicals being formed - showing that (like anything) too much will damage you (Poortmans t al., 2005).

    Some people have reported abdominal cramps or stomach problems from creatine supplementation. Several things to advise here - reduce your consumption and see if you still get cramps. Change the fluid or food you consume creatine with and see if you still get cramps. If neither of these help, then change to another brand or type of creatine. If you still have issues then you may be unfortunate enough to be unable to supplement without this issue and that is beyond the scope of this FAQ.

    An effective overview of most of the issues is summarised at:
    http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=HjU1FYjjoRcC&oi=fnd&pg=PA275&dq=Safety+of+creatine+supplementation.+Persky&ots=YUMjMnYzQ8&sig=drlupNjtnNSv_n1GtWk68-AV6R0#v=onepage&q=animal&f=false

    Dehydration is a common worry, and as previously mentioned is a risk – but not likely if you are sensible and purposefully aim to drink a solid 4L (8 pints) or so spread out through the day.

    Risks to kidneys and liver are surprisingly hard to find in literature; more so suggestions that increased creatinine levels (a breakdown product of creatine) are related to certain renal or hepatic diseases. However, whether these are a cause or an effect I cannot comment. Again, I would suggest erring on the side of caution by not exceeding recommended doses. There definitely does seem to be some evidence of creatine supplementation triggering or inflaming existing renal conditions.


    Are gains lost when coming off creatine?
    Short and sweet answer to this: no. What you may notice is that you cannot lift quite as much for quite as long  after coming off creatine. You will also notice a slight loss in weight as the water retained gradually leaves. These cause a mental effect which makes it seem like you’re lifting less and less. But that’s all it is; something mental. You will still be stronger and more enduring than if you hadn’t cycled, so long as you pushed yourself and made use of the extra creatine in your system.

    A brief analogy (figures completely made up for example): if you can bench 50kgx5 normally to start. With creatine supplementation, within a week you can do 50kgx7. With the extra workload you can train for slightly longer and slightly more intensely each week, resulting in slightly faster muscle growth/strength gains than otherwise. So at the end of the cycle you can bench for example 60kgx7. When you stop taking creatine this decreases over the next couple of weeks to 60kgx5. But did you get weaker? Well no, because without the supplementation in the first place you would only have managed to improve up to 57.5kgx5 because you couldn’t push yourself as hard as you could with it.

    Very quick explanation, hope you can get your head round it. If not – just accept #no# and move on. Wink
    « Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 10:17:06 AM by Uglok » Logged

    Uglok
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    « Reply #1 on: November 01, 2009, 04:51:08 AM »

    Anything else important about creatine?
    One other thing i’d like to mention; caffeine. This is the only substance to date that clinical studies have shown can inhibit creatine absorption (Vandenberghe et al., 1996) (Persky et al., 2003). The exact mechanism hasn’t been widely enough studied to be conclusive (suggestions that it may involve the creatine transporter in the gut) – but if I were you I would err on the side of caution and ensure caffeine isn’t consumed in the 10-12hrs before creatine supplements.
    I say 10-12 not because I found any research suggesting that, but just common sense considering the half life of caffeine (time required for physiological levels to halve) is ~5-6hrs. So levels from a cup of coffee (200mg or so) after this time period will have dropped to well under 50mg and should have a significantly diminished effect on creatine absorption.

    Personally, I felt no difference taking creatine with/without caffeine, nor changing the timing. I'm only stating what has been reported.

    Creatine has been suggested to affect a number of other molecule concentration factors as well, not least a correlation in creatine increase with muscle glycogen increase (van Loon et al., 2004) – which as a secondary effect for athletes is most certainly beneficial [more energy, whee!].

    However: consider that no long term effects study of long term creatine supplementation have been carried out. In itself, this is unethical in any clinical study (as animal studies have proven to be unreliable in this topic). “Although there are safety data available from studies of creatine supplementation in animals, experimental data from animal models may not be directly applicable to the effects of creatine in humans. For instance Green et al, (1996b) reported no increase in muscle creatine content in rats ingesting creatine in amounts equivalent to the dosages used in human studies.” (Persky & Rawson, 2007) It has also been shown that cross species creatine absorption is highly variable (i.e. rat-mice), further putting animal models into question (Persky & Rawson, 2007 has a whole list of references for this and i’m being lazy).

    It is unethical to intentionally administer a chemical with the intent of detecting a long-term side effect when the purpose of said product is not of significant health/quality of life benefit. Thus there may be an element of latency to creatine supplementation – a crude example (so people can get the idea) is those who have worked with asbestos. Fibres inhaled from asbestos exposure have a significant effect on the patient in later years – occurrences of mesothelioma or asbestosis (two extremely severe, untreatable lung-canceresque diseases) occur between 5 and 20 years later, with much MUCH higher occurrence (~200% 5years in, more like 800% higher by 20years) than wild type (normal) people who have had background (little/no) exposure. My point: what you put yourself through now can affect you years down the line. And we just don't know yet if there is something we cannot detect changing us for the worse. And like the asbestos issues, IF there is a long-term side effect, it will only come into light in 20-30years when someone puts 2+2 together and realises long term creatine supplementation is the missing link. For our purposes, that is too late.


    Although the use of Cr in endurance events is negligible, there are also some occurrences where creatine supplementation does not significantly improve times for shorter speed events (Mujika et al., 1996) yet these are far outweighed by the articles that conclusively show that creatine does improve anaerobic endurance for the majority of subjects in trials. This means for some people, supplements simply won’t work – with a higher occurrence in athletes at higher levels (perhaps due to side effects, e.g. increased weight/water retention lessening performance and outweighing the benefits Cr gives).


    Teenagers – act with caution. It’s a catch22 and you will make your own decisions, but if you take creatine, you probably aren’t training hard enough to make full benefit of it; if you are training hard enough, then you’re probably overtraining and dealing damage to joints/upsetting metabolic systems whilst they are vulnerable. There is no need for normal teenagers to take creatine supplementation: i’d go so far as to say even teenagers who compete at national/Olympic levels in their disciplines don’t need the supplementation.


    My views
    I started supplementing with creatine a few months ago, and for the first fortnight definitely saw the slight increase in reps. I could also see and feel a physical effect from the water retention. Continued supplementation brought no side effects nor additional increases. I think for the price I paid, it was well worth it.




    References (yes, i’ve gotten lazy with a few of them because typing out 10+ foreign names per source is just as much fun as it sounds!)
     - Cancela P, Ohanian C, Cuitino E and Hackney AC (2008) Creatine supplementation does not affect clinical health markers in football players, Brit. Journ. of Sprts Med. 42, pp731-735
     - Green AL, Simpson EJ, Littlewood JJ, MacDonald LA and Greenhaff PL (1996b) Carbohydrate ingestion augments creatine retention during creatine feeding in humans, Acta. Physiol. Scand. 158, pp195-202
     - van Loon LJ, Murphy R, Oosterlaar AM, Cameron-Smith D, Hargreaves M, Wagenmakers AJM and Snow R (2004), Creatine supplementation increases glycogen storage but not GLUT-4 expression in human skeletal muscle, Clin. Sci. 106, pp99-106
     - Mujika et al. (1996), Creatine supplementation does not improve sprint performance in competitive swimmers, Med. & Sci. in Sprts Exer. 28, pp1435-1441
     - Persky AM, Brazeau GA and Hochhaus G (2003), Pharmacokinetics of the dietary supplement creatine, Clin. Pharmacokin. 42, pp557-574
     - Persky AM & Rawson ES (2007), Safety of creatine supplementation [review], Subcell. Biochem. 46, pp275-289
     - Poortmans et al. (2005), Effect of Oral Creatine Supplementation on Urinary Methylamine, Formaldehyde, and Formate, Med. & Sci. in Sprts Exer. 10, pp1717-1720
     - Purchas RW, Rutherford SM, Pearce PD, Vather R and Wilkinson BHP (2004), Cooking temperature effects on the forms of iron and levels of several other compounds in beef semitendinosus muscle, Meat Science 68, pp201-207
     - Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, and Hespel P (1996), Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading, J. Appl. Physiol. 80, pp452-457


    PS: Look at the second to last reference. I couldn't believe there's an actual scientific journal called meat science! I was in stitches - a field I never knew was worked on so much!

    PPS: Apologies for going kind of off topic into ethics, asbestos etc. here. I lack the gift of the gab, especially when i'm write something which is equally suitable for 14yr olds with little scientific background who just want a quick answer as well as for a 40yr old experienced and knowledgeable person who wants to make an informed decision. My point: I blather a bit when i'm not actively trying to be concise.

    PPPS: Well done if you actually read all of this. I hope you're not braindead (after re-reading this I am), but you just read ~3500 words. Smiley

    PPPPS: Thanks to MSh for giving me a starter list of questions, otherwise i'd have blathered a lot more and said a lot less.
    « Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 10:20:54 AM by Uglok » Logged

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    « Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 10:18:00 PM »

    Great write up! Thanks a ton for the information, this should help a lot of people.

    I do have a couple questions still:

     I have heard that Alpha Lipoic Acid will boost insulin levels to help the body process creatine more effectively. I have also heard a fellow gym member mention that "for every gram of creatine consumed, you need about 10g of sugar to process it." I am always a skeptic, but was hoping you could shed some light on this.

    thanks again
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    « Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 02:41:29 AM »

    The 1g creatine 10g sugar thing I think is a manipulation of the truth and one of those things which kind of makes sense when you hear it, but is passed on by word of mouth and doesn't have a solid basis. No matter how big a dose of creatine you're taking in one go, 30-40g of sugar is probably more than enough to create an insulin spike. And i'd stick to keeping that dose via fruit/juice or similar rather than just table sugar/an expensive supplement! Considering at rest (apart from shortly after a meal) you only have around 5g of glucose in your blood, I would assume 30g is sufficient to trigger a spike.


    "Chronic administration of ALA to rats made hypertensive and insulin resistant as a result of high glucose feeding results in reductions in systolic blood pressure, an increase in whole-body insulin sensitivity, and a reduction in markers of oxidative stress"

    "Studies involving ALA treatment of human type 2 diabetic subjects are less available. However, whole-body insulin sensitivity of glucose disposal in insulin-resistant type 2 diabetic subjects is improved by not, vert, similar30% after a singe intravenous infusion of ALA or following chronic intravenous or oral administration of this antioxidant."

    Henriksen J (2006), Exercise training and the antioxidant α-lipoic acid in the treatment of insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes (Review), Free Radical Biology and Medicine 40, pp3-12

    You have the right idea about alpha lipoic acid, but the wrong mechanism. Wink It increases expression of the GLUT-4 receptor (found in skeletal muscle tissue - insulin dependant glucose transporter) and as a result makes you more sensitive to insulin.

    As creatine uptake efficiency is increased with glucose uptake, and glucose uptake is increased with ALA supplementation, it is only natural to assume that ALA will aid with creatine supplementation. And with a quick look through literature it seems you're right. 1g/day of ALA does help creatine uptake - read the abstract of this article and it puts it more effectively than I could as it answers your question perfectly.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14669930
    Burke DG, Chilibeck PD, Parise G, Tarnopolsky MA, Candow DG (2003), Effect of alpha-lipoic acid combined with creatine monohydrate on human skeletal muscle creatine and phosphagen concentration, Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 3 pp294-302
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    « Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 02:45:52 AM »

    Hey UG. VERY good faq! You wrote basically everything that there is to know about creatine. Theoretical side is spot on, practical is as good as it can be for normal human.
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    « Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 06:04:49 AM »

    This is a great paper! Very informed and specific. This should be public in a body builder magazine or something!

    Answered many of the questions I had about creatine that I couldn't stand trying to figure out from many other articles.

    Simple yet informative!

    A++

    +Karma!

    P.S. I haven't tried creatine but feel safer after having read your paper and understanding this mysterious supplement so much better!
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    « Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 06:41:10 AM »

    Agreed, this is perfectly summed up in ~3000 words. Others would have taken either toooooo lonnnnng to explain it simply or would have left things out.

    This is a great paper! Very informed and specific. This should be public in a body builder magazine or something!


    If that happened the magazines would lose money from all the supplement ads that would be debunked from this!

    I did a small amount of searching on my own, and a few articles stood out. This one cited a study regarding use for 9+ months without cycling:

    Quote
    The Safety of Creatine

    In this article we look at the issue of safety and creatine. We will review potential short term and long term side effects. Everyone should read The Beginners Guide To Creatine before starting this article

        * Is creatine dangerous?

    This is the question we will examine in this article. We will make one very basic assumption throughout this article - you are not abusing creatine. By this we mean you are taking or thinking about taking creatine within the recommended dosage (described in the Dosage article). This is an important distinction to make, because anything can become dangerous if you take to much of it. Vitamin C can have very harmful effects if you take too much of it - but that does not mean it is unsafe.

    So, for the rest of this article when we discuss potential side effects and safety we will assume that you are taking the recommended dosage of creatine.

        * Are there any short term side effects of creatine?

    There have been hundreds of studies done on creatine that all show that it is a safe supplement. There are really very few side effects reported with creatine use but they include: upset stomach, muscle cramping, diarrhea and dehydration. Most of these side effects can be minimized by drinking plenty of water when taking creatine. In addition, people tend to have more side effects when taking the powder as opposed to a more direct delivery method like serum or effervescent powder.

    It is important to understand that creatine does not effect your hormone levels. This means you do NOT get side effects like bad skin and mood swings. It is also important to note that everyone is different. While 95% of the people may have no problems with creatine - it may just really bother your stomach. In the end if you find that creatine causes you problems then it makes sense not to take it.

        * Are there any long term side effects of creatine?

    This is the most hotly debated question out there. We touch on this in our article on Teenagers and Creatine. The problem is there have not been enough long term studies done on creatine use as a supplement. With a lack of clear data people tend to speculate and that leads to controversy.

    Many scientist agree that when taken within normal dosage, creatine in theory should pose no long term health risks. On the other hand, other people like to have data saying that it has been tested over a long period before they will say it is safe. They will point to the fact that no study has studied creatine use for over 3 months. Luckily that is all changing now.

    On November 12, 1999 at the 19th Annual Southwest American College of Sports Medicine Meeting, two long term creatine studies were presented from the Exercise & Sport Nutrition Lab at the University of Memphis*. Both studies showed that 9 months of creatine supplementation (taking an average of 5 grams per day) in athletes had no negative effects on markers of renal function or muscle and liver enzymes in comparison to athletes not taking creatine.

    * Here are the actual studies referenced above

    1.Kreider R, Rasmussen C, Ransom C, Melton C, Greenwood M, Stroud T, Cantler E, Milnor P, Almada A, Greenhaff P. Long-term creatine supplementation does not affect markers of renal stress in athletes.
    2.Almada A, Kreider R, Ransom J, Melton C, Rasmussen C, Greenwood M, Stroud T, Cantler E, Milnor P, Earnest C. Long-term creatine supplementation does not affect muscle or liver enzyme efflux in athletes.

    In fact some studies have shown that creatine can help reduce your chances of heart disease and adult on-set diabetes. It was found that after 51 days of taking creatine the study group had a 22% decrease in VLDL-cholesterol levels and a 23% decrease in blood triglyceride levels. VLDL-cholesterol and triglycerides are risk factors for heart disease and adult on-set diabetes.

    We make this point to show that as more studies are done it may be that more benefits of creatine are discovered. Studies don't always just show negative long term effects. A classic example of this has been the recent discoveries with alcohol. New studies show that 2 drinks a day can have very beneficial effects in reducing your chance of heart disease. Of course, like creatine - if you abuse alcohol it can have negative effects.


        * So, are you guaranteeing that creatine is safe?

    Of course not - there are only two guarantees in life - death and taxes. New studies are being done all the time. The best we can do is operate with the data we have in front of us. Your decision on whether to take creatine should be done with your doctor. It may be that you have an existing condition that could be harmful if you took creatine. You may be taking a drug that would have a negative interaction with creatine. There are many variables that come into play.

    In the end, everyone can interpret studies in a different way. From our view, nothing is out there to indicate that creatine has long term negative effects. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - but that is the way we feel.

        * What is this I hear about liver and kidney damage with creatine?

    This can be a problem if you abuse creatine. Any creatine your body does not use is excreted as a waste product called creatinine. If you take 20 grams a day of creatine - your body will not be able to use most of it and will have to excrete the excess. Over time this constant excretion of creatinine can put a lot of work on your kidneys and liver. If you force them to work to hard that can lead to serious problems.

        * Is creatine safe for teenagers to take?

    Please read our our article on Teenagers and Creatine.

        * Is one form of creatine safer than another?

    Not really. It is true that you need to take less creatine when using a creatine serum over a creatine powder - so this helps minimize any excess work by the liver and kidneys. In that way, serum can be safer. In the end, you want to be able to take the smallest amount possible and still achieve positive effects. If one form has a better absorption rate, than you need to take less creatine - and this can help further minimize any potential risk.


    From: http://www.absolute-creatine.com/4.htm
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    « Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 06:24:37 PM »

    thanks again, that answers my questions perfectly


    weird, one of those scientists cited shares my last name. kinda cool

    Thanks again Uglok
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    « Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 03:27:36 AM »

    No worries.

    And dread - I have read a couple of those articles now too, and disturbingly enough i doubt how fully legitimate these scientists are simply because the majority of their references upon which they are basing their work are on THEIR OWN published studies. They seem to just publish a paper - change the wording and format then republish it into another journal and then cross reference them against each other, again and again and again. Very confusing - something I haven't seen done before.

    I also want to point out "had no negative effects on markers of renal function or muscle and liver enzymes in comparison to athletes not taking creatine."

    Just because something falls within excepted clinical standards does not mean that there is no risk factor increasing or similar. Nor does it make any attempt at determining if the ability of the liver to symphasise creatine is decreased. Then again - an interesting find, thanks for bringing it up and if I ever get rid of my current workload i'll read up on it some more. Tongue
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    « Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 06:36:17 AM »

    good write Ug, I have read that creatine has a positive effect on reduction of cholesterol don`t think you mentioned or came across in research? I use a monohydrate from a german pharmacutical but don`t load anymore, just 3g a day 1month on  one off, but usually my coffee gap is bout3~4 hr. so your dayin that gap is too close. Also read it stores overtime for use when needed and time taken just anytime when active. got thru it all but late here not all sunk in. will read again..I did read elsewhere that creatine was being trialed for muscular dystrophy (muscular degeneration) and older folks with lack of muscle and joint probs, can`t find reference now..cheers

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    « Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 05:23:49 PM »

    Got a quick question guys. 

    I'm trying to beef up to around 190 LBS(170 now) and I want to tryout for my colleges football team in about a year and a half, and am thinking about taking creatine to get stronger and maybe gain some weight.  Do you guys recommend this?  It would only be for about a month, then cycle off of it, then weight about 2 more months then repeat.  Will this make me slower? 
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    « Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 03:12:27 AM »

    Got a quick question guys. 

    I'm trying to beef up to around 190 LBS(170 now) and I want to tryout for my colleges football team in about a year and a half, and am thinking about taking creatine to get stronger and maybe gain some weight.  Do you guys recommend this?  It would only be for about a month, then cycle off of it, then weight about 2 more months then repeat.  Will this make me slower? 

    Weight wise, you'll put on a few pounds and that might make you a tad slower at first. But your sprint times etc. should increase with the creatine supplementation and it would benefit the weightlifting.

    If you can afford it, have no family history of renal (kidney) problems, and are willing to put in the time to really make the creatine work for you - I say go for it. Just stay safe with the doses and listen to your body. Completely your choice though.
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    « Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 06:12:10 AM »

    Got a quick question guys. 

    I'm trying to beef up to around 190 LBS(170 now) and I want to tryout for my colleges football team in about a year and a half, and am thinking about taking creatine to get stronger and maybe gain some weight.  Do you guys recommend this?  It would only be for about a month, then cycle off of it, then weight about 2 more months then repeat.  Will this make me slower? 

    Weight wise, you'll put on a few pounds and that might make you a tad slower at first. But your sprint times etc. should increase with the creatine supplementation and it would benefit the weightlifting.

    If you can afford it, have no family history of renal (kidney) problems, and are willing to put in the time to really make the creatine work for you - I say go for it. Just stay safe with the doses and listen to your body. Completely your choice though.

    In addition to this, if you're looking to gain 20 pounds...EAT! Eat like crazy, you'll need the calories because you'll be burning them but also to gain weight you have to have more than your maintenance level.
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    « Reply #13 on: November 07, 2009, 12:26:05 PM »

    K Thanks guys. 
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    « Reply #14 on: November 09, 2009, 04:37:18 PM »

    Quick question guys during my loading phase i basically urinate every 30 mins but now that i'm only doing maintenance i usrinate like every 1- 1.30 hours is this normal? or should i drink alot more water?
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