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Author Topic: Micro-fracturing shins to make shins "hard as stone"  (Read 718 times)
susar
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« on: December 30, 2011, 02:08:20 PM »

What do you guys think of this?

Do you think it is dangerous?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 02:17:30 PM by susar » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 02:14:20 PM »

from experience I know its true, I kicked a metal pole the other day so hard it broke the light bulb on top of it didn't hurt me at all.
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 03:00:14 PM »

It works. My sensei used to kick the iron suports of the punchin bags. And punched the wall every day. Hes hands weighted more than my head hehehe

This technic is used for the people who perform feats of strength, like punching tru bricks and things like that. But it is a slow process..

Shaolin monks kick banana trees 100 times a day per leg to make them harder. Same principle
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 03:03:12 PM »

Sounds crazy to me, I wouldnt do it.
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 03:30:07 PM »

Sounds crazy to me, I wouldnt do it.


Actually is the same priciple than resistence trainig but with bones. With muscles you "brake" them a little bit every time you workout so your body makes them stronger.

When you hit a wall the bone gets micro-fractures, the body reacts by making the bone stronger and thicker.

Documental - Shaolin Habilities Demostration (DDC)


The link is a video of shaolin monks doing feats of strength working under that priciple
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 08:02:37 PM »

And its absurd, yes you get stronger bones, but you also risk serious long term effects(Ask Mas Oyama..). There is a reason most, even old martial arts, without knowing it have adapted wolffs law when it comes to training regarding bone adaption, realizing that not all old school is optimal.
Quote
The principle that every change in the form and the function of a bone or in the function of the bone alone, leads to changes in its internal architecture and in its external form.

As an example, wich I have used so many times before, english medieval archers. Their bones adapted to the point that archeologists can instantly spot a archers skeleton.
Quote
Skeletons of longbow archers are recognisably deformed, with enlarged left arms and often bone spurs on left wrists, left shoulders and right fingers
That is a direct result of continual training, not breaking their bones.

Quote
When you hit a wall the bone gets micro-fractures, the body reacts by making the bone stronger and thicker.

No, what happens is the body reacts to the trauma involved and like with any bonebreakage, makes the damaged area stronger to avoid further trauma. Now, the only part that gets stronger is that precise area.
So lets say you punch a wall with that method, and you get MF on your knuckles. Now those will heal stronger.

Follow wolffs law of dynamic adaption, lets say use a heavy bag etc, and your body will adapt by making all the bones involved in the impact stronger

Quote
Shaolin monks kick banana trees 100 times a day per leg to make them harder. Same principle

That would be muay thai fighters. Shaolin uses a different training method, and one that is more gentle, but equally effective(but not as dangerous). They use a medium, aka something that lets the power be transferred somewhere else, NOT directly back into your own body. Beanbags, sand, phonebooks etc are all good mediums
Example:
iron palm training in shaolin


Heck, I have broken tons of brick etc over the years and I have hard hands, I have never done any of the break a bone nonsense.
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 07:56:46 AM »

The principle im reffering to is the same one as Wolf's. English is not my first leguage so maybe i didnt explain myself properly  Grin

The bones are not a thick uniform mass. is full of holes and columns like in the pick below

http://b.imagehost.org/0212/Scanning_electron_micrograph_of_bone.jpg

Every time you hit a punching back some of those microscopic pieces of bone "break" thats why you get hard hands.
Is not like I go en actually fracture my hand and wait for it to heal. In my dojo we use heavy bags for that reason. I do not agree with actualy fracturing the bone or hurting yourself. In fact i never had a fracture or a injury on my hands( except once from basketball)

Banana trees are actualy really soft thats why they use it. I belive that we are talking about the same principle but i just didnt expresed correctly.
Sorry guys...
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 10:33:29 AM »

The principle im reffering to is the same one as Wolf's. English is not my first leguage so maybe i didnt explain myself properly  Grin

The bones are not a thick uniform mass. is full of holes and columns like in the pick below

http://b.imagehost.org/0212/Scanning_electron_micrograph_of_bone.jpg

Every time you hit a punching back some of those microscopic pieces of bone "break" thats why you get hard hands.
Is not like I go en actually fracture my hand and wait for it to heal. In my dojo we use heavy bags for that reason. I do not agree with actualy fracturing the bone or hurting yourself. In fact i never had a fracture or a injury on my hands( except once from basketball)

Banana trees are actualy really soft thats why they use it. I belive that we are talking about the same principle but i just didnt expresed correctly.
Sorry guys...


yeah man, this says it all. Its not 'crazy' or anything. What I did to toughen my shin up is kick a heavy bag on the hard parts, kick a car tire mounted on a wall, and roll a wooden stick up and down the shin. Did the same thing with my knuckles it works great.

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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2011, 11:34:29 AM »

The principle im reffering to is the same one as Wolf's. English is not my first leguage so maybe i didnt explain myself properly  Grin
Actually, its not what wolffs law states, I think you mix the two. (First of Wolffs law has changed over the years to include modern discoveries)

Its not about stress,fractures etc, its about dynamic loads making the bone adapt and this is called remodelling. Requirements of the bone changes, and it changes to meet the changes in requirements.
And when using a heavy bag or another medium, you do not create fractures(it can happen ofc), you create dynamic stress/load. Many think that means fractures have been imposed, but that is from the old misunderstanding that that is the only way to strengthen bone. Wich is where I think you mixed them up, you have the correct idea about wolffs, then mix in the fracture bit and it weers off course.

Its different physiological reactions.
This however is the result when using the old school method:
Quote
Bone undergoes regular remodelling to recover from loading, but if the amount of
repeated loading is far above power of remodelling , then this results in fatigue or
stress fracture.


Quote
The only normal physiologic mechanism for altering bone structure in adult skeleton

Read this, very good(above quote is from this article):
http://www.wardny.org/files/articles/About%20Dentistry/Wolff%27s%20Law.pdf

omreg, when you kick a heavy bag, it doesnt create fractures. That is dynamic loads, impact,pause,impact pause. Same as knuckle pushups for instance, doesnt break the bone, instead stimulates body to adapt.

This is also the concept followed when treating older people to avoid osteoporosis, maintain activity to stimulate bone growth. Seen how people who have been laying down for years have very thin bones?
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2011, 12:05:56 PM »

Good article, learn something new everyday
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2012, 08:45:36 AM »

Good article, learn something new everyday

Thats true!
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    « Reply #11 on: January 01, 2012, 02:08:23 PM »

    It's true that you can harden and thicken your bones, but a risk involved is that these bones (especially in the legs) will not break normally. Instead, they will splinter, which makes recovery much harder.
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    « Reply #12 on: January 01, 2012, 03:44:22 PM »

    It's true that you can harden and thicken your bones, but a risk involved is that these bones (especially in the legs) will not break normally. Instead, they will splinter, which makes recovery much harder.
    Not if you do it the natural way by letting them adapt, that is a natural gradual process that does not change the function of the bones.
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    « Reply #13 on: January 02, 2012, 08:09:44 AM »

    It's true that you can harden and thicken your bones, but a risk involved is that these bones (especially in the legs) will not break normally. Instead, they will splinter, which makes recovery much harder.
    Not if you do it the natural way by letting them adapt, that is a natural gradual process that does not change the function of the bones.
    I believe it's not so much that their function changes, but more an aspect of having thicker and harder bones.
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    « Reply #14 on: January 02, 2012, 09:43:51 AM »

    Getting bigger bones will not make them britte crocodile, nor will they get less flexible etc.
    Strength training of all forms promote bone adaption/growth, one of the reasons people with osteoporosis have a significant benefit from doing it. That goes agains them actually becoming brittle, the other way around Smiley
    http://podiatry.curtin.edu.au/resources/educational-resources/exphys/00/osteoporosis.cfm

    As long as you dont do anything horrible to your bones, dont get a disease and have a good nutrition+ training, your bones will benefit greatly from it Wink Have to remember how strong and flexible our bones are supposed to be.

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