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King Neptune
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« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 04:40:37 PM » |
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I was talking about strength. Squats are a skill too, and they're extermely technical. Much more to do with "skill" than strength however. But some serious skill.
I disagree with that (bolded stuff). It has a lot to do with strength too, just like squatting. |
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Paralysisxiii
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« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 04:43:56 PM » |
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I was talking about strength. Squats are a skill too, and they're extermely technical. Much more to do with "skill" than strength however. But some serious skill.
I disagree with that (bolded stuff). It has a lot to do with strength too, just like squatting. Well would you agree that an elite level olympic lift has a lot more to do with skill than your general squat and that if you weren't born with the potential to perform such a feat you'd have virtually no chance at it? That's my point. |
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King Neptune
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« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 04:46:37 PM » |
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I was talking about strength. Squats are a skill too, and they're extermely technical. Much more to do with "skill" than strength however. But some serious skill.
I disagree with that (bolded stuff). It has a lot to do with strength too, just like squatting. Well would you agree that an elite level olympic lift has a lot more to do with skill than your general squat and that if you weren't born with the potential to perform such a feat you'd have virtually no chance at it? That's my point. Probably. But increasing the squat to unusually high levels has a lot to do with skill, too. And strength. Besides, the moves I mentioned (front lever, slow muscle-up, planche dips) aren't explosive, fast power exercises, unlike Oly lifts. |
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Paralysisxiii
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« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 04:58:36 PM » |
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I was talking about strength. Squats are a skill too, and they're extermely technical. Much more to do with "skill" than strength however. But some serious skill.
I disagree with that (bolded stuff). It has a lot to do with strength too, just like squatting. Well would you agree that an elite level olympic lift has a lot more to do with skill than your general squat and that if you weren't born with the potential to perform such a feat you'd have virtually no chance at it? That's my point. Probably. But increasing the squat to unusually high levels has a lot to do with skill, too. And strength. Besides, the moves I mentioned (front lever, slow muscle-up, planche dips) aren't explosive, fast power exercises, unlike Oly lifts. But Oly lifts aren't so incredibly skill dominant because of the acceleration, but the movements, nuances of each, need for repetition, etc. Trap bar speed lifts have produced similar power readings, much less "skill." Squats are also a natural human movement, babies are great at them. The technically sound muscle up, front lever, planche, all very complex technical movements demanding huge amounts of tension. My saying "much more to do with skill" was based on the fact that given great muscular capacity these movements would still take years to perform, while given great muscular capacity many other movements would take less. i.e. a dumbbell curl or calf raise or one of the natural human movements like gait or hinging. |
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King Neptune
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 05:11:16 PM » |
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Well, curls, maybe, but there's nothing natural about squatting with several times your bodyweight on your shoulders. It's inceredibly technical. And while some of the things you see in the video may take years to accomplish, that's largely because they require so much strength  But I believe that most intermediate lifters can achieve a decent front lever in less than a year if they train for it frequently. |
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Raton
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« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2012, 12:28:31 PM » |
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Muscle-up is probably one of the few bar tricks which actually requires significant amount of skill because the shoulder rotation is very tricky. The other tricks are mostly just strength. The reason why jacked bodybuilders can't perform the most of the tricks is that they have ruined their strength - bodyweight ratio with training the strength and size of their visible muscles and not keeping their joints/ligaments, core, mobility and forearms in the same level as the rest of the body. What you need in bar-athletics is equilibrium of the body. Most of the people have VERY weak core strength, forearm strength and joint/ligament strength compared to the weight and size of their other muscles, hence making it impossible for their core and lats to hold the weight example in a front lever.
Gymnastics require tons of skills because they utilize the momentum to perform most of the tricks. Weightlifting is also a lot about skill. Bodybuilding and bar-athletics are mostly about the strength.
That's how I see it.
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King Neptune
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« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2012, 12:34:06 PM » |
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Muscle-up is probably one of the few bar tricks which actually requires significant amount of skill because the shoulder rotation is very tricky. The other tricks are mostly just strength. The reason why jacked bodybuilders can't perform the most of the tricks is that they have ruined their strength - bodyweight ratio with training the strength and size of their visible muscles and not keeping their joints/ligaments, core, mobility and forearms in the same level as the rest of the body. What you need in bar-athletics is equilibrium of the body. Most of the people have VERY weak core strength, forearm strength and joint/ligament strength compared to the weight and size of their other muscles, hence making it impossible for their core and lats to hold the weight example in a front lever.
Gymnastics require tons of skills because they utilize the momentum to perform most of the tricks. Weightlifting is also a lot about skill. Bodybuilding and bar-athletics are mostly about the strength.
That's how I see it.
The slow muscle-up is mostly about strength too Watch Al Kavadlo do it at 2:10 or so:
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Raton
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2012, 08:57:33 AM » |
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Muscle-up is probably one of the few bar tricks which actually requires significant amount of skill because the shoulder rotation is very tricky. The other tricks are mostly just strength. The reason why jacked bodybuilders can't perform the most of the tricks is that they have ruined their strength - bodyweight ratio with training the strength and size of their visible muscles and not keeping their joints/ligaments, core, mobility and forearms in the same level as the rest of the body. What you need in bar-athletics is equilibrium of the body. Most of the people have VERY weak core strength, forearm strength and joint/ligament strength compared to the weight and size of their other muscles, hence making it impossible for their core and lats to hold the weight example in a front lever.
Gymnastics require tons of skills because they utilize the momentum to perform most of the tricks. Weightlifting is also a lot about skill. Bodybuilding and bar-athletics are mostly about the strength.
That's how I see it.
The slow muscle-up is mostly about strength too Watch Al Kavadlo do it at 2:10 or so: Yeah, I was thinking some time whether I write "swing muscle-up" or just a "muscle-up" but decided to go with just a muscle-up because even a slow muscle-up requires some technique, but mostly just strength ^^. I think Arthlete performs a very beautiful slow muscle-up below, for a guy who is not a gymnast that is.
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King Neptune
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« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2012, 09:51:38 AM » |
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^That's right! And a slow muscle-up on a bar is harder than with rings |
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Glimmer King
It's a dangerous business, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no telling where you might be swept off to
Applying Gnome
Reputation Power: 1
Posts: 10
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« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2012, 09:07:54 AM » |
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Wow, alot of people have replied to this  |
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"Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength." - Deuteronomy 6:5
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